CTRL key latching on without being pressed

In a simplified keyboard for Chimila this code:

+ [NCAPS K_G] > U+0067
+ [CAPS K_G] > U+0047
+ [NCAPS SHIFT K_G] > U+0047
+ [CAPS SHIFT K_G] > U+0067
+ [NCAPS RALT K_G] > U+A78C c Latin small letter saltillo
+ [CAPS RALT K_G] > U+A78C c Latin small letter saltillo

should result in the display of the Latin small letter saltillo when RAlt+G are keyed, regardless of the CAPS or SHIFT status. Instead we see this in the debug keystroke log:

Control + AltGr + G
AltGr + G
Control + AltGr + G
AltGr + G

which gives this output in the test display field:


The CTRL key is activated without being touched, just from keying AltGr+G. If the AltGr key is held down after keying “g”, (when nothing is displayed), and CTRL is keyed, followed by “g” again, then the saltillo appears.

Sticky keys are one thing, but a key that activates when not touched is another. What might cause this?

System: Windows 10. Keyman and Keyman Developer both 15.0.270. Curiously, the OSK does put the saltillo into on-screen text.


Hi @Chiff,

Welcome back :grin:

If I am understanding you correctly, this looks like it is limited to happening the debugger in Keyman Developer?

My thought as to the reason – on some Windows hardware keyboards, Windows treats AltGr the same as Left Ctrl + Right Alt. The reason is historical, supporting users who had only one Alt key on their keyboards. Keyman for Windows should handle this case already, but I think when we rewrote the debugger integration in Keyman Developer 15, we missed this edge case. I have reported this as an issue to fix in the debugger.

One potential workaround would be to try debugging the keyboard with the US English keyboard installed.


The error persists when the System keyboard is set in the debugger to either KBDUS.DLL or KBDUSX.DLL.

Using Keyman 115.0.270 on this machine the AltGr+G combination gives the Latin small saltillo as intended in MS Word, Outlook, Excel, Paratext 9.2, Editpad Pro (text editor).

The end user reports other problems with the keyboard. I have requested details. It may be many months before I receive them. At first it seemed to be processor related: Intel OK, AMD fail. We shall see.



I think that this will be related to the keyboard you have selected in the Windows language switcher, rather than the system keyboard selection in the debugger, because that selection determines how Windows handles the AltGr key.

Hello! I don’t know all the technical terms, but I think I’m having this same problem. It just started about 2 weeks ago. When I type using the Keyman Yiddish Pasekh keyboard, it enters the first character, then when I hit another key, I might get a dropdown menu or other function, which suggests to me that the CTRL or ALT key was pressed. I’ve uninstalled Keyman and reinstalled, and I have the same problem.

Hi @astrojet990, this sounds like it might be unrelated – the issue that @Chiff was reporting was happening only within the debugger tool in Keyman Developer, whereas your issue sounds like it is system-wide. Can you start a new topic on this and send a diagnostic report to us, and we can take a look?

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I switched the language from the KMD drop-down, not from the language switcher on the Task bar.


What is your Windows system keyboard in the language switcher? I am guessing it is US International?

My day-to-day keyboard is English (UK). In KMD it is, as you say, US International.

@Chiff, gotcha. OK, I am going to try and reproduce this here and look at fixing it now in the keyboard debugger. The English (UK) keyboard has the same characteristics as English International in terms of how it handles AltGr.

I normally use the English (US) keyboard here, so just didn’t encounter this in my local testing!

We’ve got a tentative fix for this in Keyman Developer 16.0 at: #7530 and a follow-up at #7531. Once this passes local testing and build for 16.0, we’ll be backporting this fix to 15.0 also.