Modified versions of v6 Roman fonts

SIL Fonts
1

I appreciate all of the hard work that has gone into the v6 Roman fonts. Thank you!

But I’m a little confused about “modified” versions of these fonts. They are not available in TypeTuner (only v5 is available to select), so you would need to use specific features in your software to select different options. But the “Using Font Features” page says that it’s very difficult in Word.

I’m thinking specifically about two modified fonts that our users use all the time: Literacy variants and Compact line spacing (and also the combination of Literacy Compact). How do I tell someone to get the Literacy and/or Compact modifications of the new font if they are using Word? It seems like you should at least provide those two commonly-used modifications of the v6 Roman fonts.

And maybe I’m just not patient enough, and you plan to add the v6 fonts to TypeTuner. But this comment on the Download - Latin, Cyrillic, and Greek Fonts - Latin, Cyrillic, and Greek Fonts page doesn’t sound promising:

We do not currently plan to provide subsets based on version 6, as the need for subset fonts has been considerably reduced by current font and browser technology. If you have a particular need for any of these fonts to be updated to version 6 please contact us and describe your need.

I’m hoping that if you don’t provide subsets, that you at least plan on putting the v6 fonts in TypeTuner. From my perspective (of seeing very high use of Literacy and Compact modifications), you should still provide those high-use subsets of Literacy and Compact, but I would be willing to type-tune them myself. But we do need SOME path for Word users to use v6 fonts modified with Literacy and Compact variants. And even in LibreOffice Writer, is it a good idea to ask the end user to manually select literacy variants, to get a font of “Charis SIL:ss11&ss12”? I think “Charis SIL Literacy” as a distinct font will have a lot more success. And what would be the recommended method of getting “Compact”? Setting the line spacing manually? That would be a pain if you having changing font sizes in your document. Or is there some “Compact” feature that I’m missing?

Thanks for your input…

2

Hi Jeff -

Don’t fret - we’ll still be meeting the needs that are out there. The differences between TypeTuner, ‘modified’ fonts, and subsets is sometimes confusing. Our strategy and timing also differs between them. Here’s what we’re intending to do, in approximate order:

TypeTuner - We fully intend to make the v6 fonts support TypeTuner as soon as we can, but it won’t be right away. It’s a bit complicated and we have limited staff. It would have been great to have v6 support TypeTuner on release, but we decided getting v6 out was more important than delaying until the TypeTuner work was all done.

TypeTuner Web - This is the web site that will run TypeTuner for you and allow you to download fonts with certain features turned on by default, so that you don’t have to depend on apps to have a UI for font features. As soon as the fonts support TypeTuner we’ll place them up on TypeTuner Web.

Modified fonts - These are special ‘pre-tuned’ versions of the fonts, like Compact and Literacy. These are actually produced using TypeTuner - we don’t do a bunch of further modifications. In the past we have made special download packages and put them on the download page of the main fonts, but they are essentially identical to what TypeTuner Web would provide. In fact, some of the v5 modified font download links are just internal links to TypeTuner Web! We will certainly make Compact, Literacy, and some other modified fonts available, first through TypeTuner Web, and then possibly as separate links.

Subset fonts - These a very different from TypeTuner fonts, as they only contain the glyphs needed for a certain region or use (e.g. Charis SIL Afr). The main benefit of these in the past has been that they are smaller than the main fonts and useful for mobile apps and web sites. Current web font technology, however, such as WOFF2, now provides highly compressed versions of the full fonts. These can likely meet most of the need.

IOW if you’re using a v5 subset font right now you should try the v6 WOFF2 fonts instead - they are in the main download package in the ‘web’ folder. But if the v6 WOFF2 fonts don’t meet your need we’d like to know more about that need.

The reality is that providing and supporting subset fonts is technically tricky and time consuming and the pressure on our limited staff time is already high. Unless there is a clear and strong need for subset fonts we don’t plan on producing them. That will allow us to be much more responsive to other needs and get on with v7 and beyond much more quickly.

I hope that clarifies our plans and reassures you that we’re not abandoning TypeTuner, Compact, or Literacy. It will just take a while for us to build in that support and provide those modified versions in some way.

Victor

1 Like
3

Thanks so much for releasing v6 fonts in TypeTuner. That’s a great help!

I have a question, however, about the Tight line spacing in TypeTuner. We have typically created a “Compact” version of the fonts with this setting. But for other features, we have encouraged people who needed them to use the feature settings where possible, e.g. adding the feature to the font name in LibreOffice Writer like this: “Charis SIL:cv43=1”, rather than creating a special TypeTuned font.

But I’m just now realizing that Line spacing is different than the other features. There is no feature in the list of features (the features.pdf that comes with the documentation) for line spacing. This makes the line spacing feature fundamentally different than the other features. I can’t just add a feature to the font name and get tighter line spacing.

I think this is why we need to be able to TypeTune a tighter line spacing. Yes, there are lots of parameters in LibreOffice (and other programs) that allow the adjustment of line spacing of individual lines, paragraphs, etc.manually. But nothing “global” like TypeTuning the line spacing in the font. When someone wants tighter line spacing with the regular Charis SIL font, and does it manually, there will inevitably be problems. If you set the line spacing to be “Fixed” or “Exactly”, there will probably be some characters somewhere that are a larger font, or superscripts/subscripts, and you will have to tweak the line spacing manually to make it look right. Whereas, as far as I can tell, if you TypeTuning the tighter line spacing into a Compact font, and then just use that font with the standard Single Line Spacing in the program - all of those cases will be taken care of automatically.

Am I understanding this situation correctly?
Jeff

4

I understand what you want but it’s not technically possible. Font features cannot be used to change the default line spacing metrics of a font. The only way to do it is to hack the font’s vertical metrics, and we’ve built that capability into TypeTuner. We’ve provided three options for line spacing - normal, tight, and loose - whose values have been hard-coded into our TypeTuner control files for each font family.

The problem you report about “Fixed” or “Exactly” is normally considered to be a good thing. If you are writing a book and need to enter a word from another (larger) font into a line with default line spacing it can mess up the line spacing and make it inconsistent, even within a single paragraph. People complain about that, as it makes the document ugly and more difficult to read.

Setting the spacing explicitly avoids that problem and makes things consistent. It also makes the document more portable. For example, opening up an LO .docx in Word will be less likely to cause changes in line spacing if it’s explicitly set, esp. if you’re also changing OSes.

If you’re teaching others to use LO and struggle with this then teach them how to use styles. Or at least prepare templates that where the ‘normal’ style is explicitly set. If you can teach them to type in arcane things like “Charis SIL:cv43=1" every time they set the font then they certainly should be able to understand how to use a template. If you use templates then they may not even have to learn “Charis SIL:cv43=1", as that can be preset in a style.

Even if there were a way for us to give you a special way to hack the line spacing as you request, it would only ever be useful with our fonts and certain apps (maybe only LO). You would be teaching people a skill with very limited use and no chance of them transferring that skill to other contexts. I suggest that it may be better long-term to teach them to use the apps well (templates, styles, explicit line spacing, etc.).

5

Thanks, Victor, for this helpful reply. To be clear, I wasn’t asking for a special font feature for setting line spacing, but was just trying to express (more to myself, I guess) why I felt having the Compact version of the font was helpful.

I understand your comments about using “Fixed” line spacing, and how that is generally a good thing, and I see how using styles and templates could help people to be more consistent. And I will do my best to promote those Best Practices.

But at a practical level, when Joe starts creating a new document (let’s say a literacy easy reader), and decides to use 16pt Andika for his text, and sees that the lines are sort of far apart, he pops up the Paragraph Format dialog, sets it to fixed 19pt… what’s to prevent him from saying “18pt would give me even more text on the page, how about 17pt!” Yes, I think even poor Joe would eventually realize that he is doing a Bad Thing. But I sort of like the idea that we have an Andika Compact font, which has a tighter line spacing, but at least a line spacing that has been officially “approved” for use in documents, so that over-eager Joe doesn’t take the tighter line spacing too far.

So anyway, I think we understand each other… I will try to encourage the Best Practices, but I will also keep Compact versions of our fonts available as a convenience, especially for documents which aren’t so professional in nature.

6

We continue to support the alternate line spacings for these reasons - while also discouraging their use. Could you set up a literacy easy reader template with explicit line spacing set in the normal style? Then you can even set up different line spacings (and paragraph spacing) for different types of content. For example, headings that extend over multiple lines often need proportionately less line spacing, while captions need more.