Keyman Keyboard not staying active, & can't get rid of extra keyboard (Windows 10)

Hello,

I am having problems with the Keyman keyboard not staying active, and with an extra keyboard appearing. I read this old thread but now on Keyman 13, I don’t see the option “Select keyboard layout for all applications” in the Keyman Options Window. In Windows 10 settings, I see under “Language” the option “Choose an input method to always use as default.” But the drop-down menu in the next screen doesn’t show me my Keyman keyboard.

I tried reading the Keyman documentation but couldn’t find anything.

Also, at the moment of upgrade from Keyman 10 to 13, I had just two keyboards- English, and the custom Keyman, which was based on Latinoamericano. But after the upgrade I got three: English, Spanish (Peru) and the custom Keyman keyboard.

Adding or removing Spanish (Peru) via Windows 10 options didn’t help.

Any ideas on how I can get the keyboards back down to two, and keep the Keyman keyboard as default across all aplicaciones?

Thanks so much,

Alex



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I’m having the same issues.

Regarding Alex’s second issue (the extra keyboard), I’ll give some more info:

In the red box above, you can see the Keyman keyboard I made, called ‘Kamtapuri’, as well as a second keyboard (‘Bengali keyboard’, listed under “Rangpuri,” a name for the language that isn’t used in my area) that was automatically added when I tried to install the keyboard. This is somehow linked to the fact that Windows automatically installed a system language associated with the iso code listed in the keyboard:

The same thing happened when I installed my ‘Sadri Keyboard (Dev)’ (highlighted in yellow in the first picture). Windows automatically installed an extra keyboard that I didn’t want. Just to attempt a work-around, I deleted the Sadri language in my Language Settings (which is why you don’t see “Sadri” listed in the second picture). After deleting the language from Windows, it then classified my keyboard as “Unknown Locale (qab-Latn).”

Thanks @Matt_A and @Alex_Larkin for writing. We do have some challenges with Windows language settings and missing keyboards. This is something we are planning to investigate in significant detail during the development of version 14.0.

It is often (but not always) possible to remove the extra keyboard that sometimes appears by clicking on the language in Language Preferences and selecting Options; this shows a list of keyboards associated with that language. Make sure Keyman is running before you open Language Preferences. In Alex’s case, I see that the Spanish language is missing entirely.

Sad to say (but simple enough to do), a restart of Windows also sorts out some of these issues.

Thanks for being willing to look into this more for the next version!

Just to give you more info on this, the reset seemed to fix the problem with the keyboard not staying active for me.

The other issue remains, for me. Windows won’t let you delete a keyboard from a language if it’s the only keyboard for that language. So, since Windows doesn’t recognize the Keyman keyboard as being associate with that language, it won’t let you delete the “extra” keyboard. Notice how the ‘Remove’ button is grayed out here:

So the only option you have is to delete the language altogether. And doing this is mostly okay (ie, it still works the same), but then you see that your computer doesn’t like that keyboard:

Hope this helps.

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Hello,

I apologize for the late response. Thank you for the info, and I’m sorry that this is proving to be so tricky to fit.

For what it’s worth, rebooting my computer causes no change in behavior for me.

Also, I have noticed that in my keyboard picker (see my last image from my original March 27th post), sometimes the vernacular keyboard appears above Spanish, and sometimes below it. I haven’t picked up on a pattern and I don’t know if the issue is related.

I also often am unable to access the picker unless I hit the alt+shift key shortcut first once, then release, and try it again. I also don’t know if that’s related. Should I post this paragraph and the preceding one as separate bug reports?

Any timeline on when version 14 might be coming out? The issue of my vernacular keyboard not staying active will need to be resolved before Keyman can be useful for my team.

Thanks so much,

Alex

Hi @Alex_Larkin,

I’m not sure why the keyboard would not be staying active. In order to try and narrow down the cause, I’d like to understand the symptoms a bit better. Can you describe the symptoms in a bit more detail?

  • Does it happen when you switch applications, or within a single application – if so which app?

  • Do you know which build of Window 10 you are using? (Pressing Win+X, selecting System will show you).

  • Do you have hotkeys apart from Alt+Left Shift setup for your keyboards?

  • What happens if you turn off the Alt+Left Shift hotkey temporarily in Keyman Configuration? Does that improve things?

Keeping the keyboard active as default is a problem that we are working on with 14.0. That’s scheduled for release toward the end of this year but that timing is dependent on funding and resources – the team is very constrained at present.

Thanks so much Marc for your help. Here are my answers:

  • It feels like it happens almost every time I switch applications, because I’m always having to switch my keyboard. But as I pay close attention now, it does seem like a lot of applications are remembering my preference, at least for the sesion. Also, it switches to English especially every time I go into FLEx, and also when switching fields in FLEx.
  • 18362.778 is my Windows 10 OS build.
  • To my knowledge, no other hotkeys are setup on my system, except for what is standard, and some shortcuts for launching applications that I configured. Namely, Ctrl+Shift+1,2,3,etc for changing my power plan.
  • I toggled the keyboard on and off as you said (third option in print screen). I did a system reboot, and observed no changes.

I’m really sorry to add more to the list, but I have also recently observed more issues. Please let me know if you want me to post these separately:

  • In the last week or two, I have not been able to use Alt+Shift at all to select my keyman keyboard from the Windows user sign-in screen. I now have to manually click it with my mouse. (video)
  • Normally my keyboard words OK in Chrome once I select it, but I found that recently while attempting to reset my IIDP password, that my vernacular keyboard was outputting US ENG characters, both in the password field in the Chrome for PC browser, and in my LastPass for PC app from the Microsoft Store.
  • In Skype, Keyman also always gives me US ENG characters, even when my vernacular keyboard is selected. (video)

For both Skype and LastPass, I tried using them with the onscreen keyboard activated and the vernacular keyboard selected. Whether I used the physical key or clicked on the key on the on-screen keyboard, it still output US ENG characters.

Thanks also for the info on the hoped-for date on Keyman 14.0.

What do you think? Is there any more info I can supply you with?

Thanks so much,

Alex

First, FLEx takes control of the active language when switching fields, so that’s to be expected. Otherwise, this sounds to me like the Windows language setting for keyboards:

Click on the Windows language selector next to the clock and select Language preferences:

image

In the Language settings screen, scroll down and click on Choose an input method to always use as default:

Ensure that the option Let me use a different input method for each app window is not ticked.

The Skype and LastPass issue may be related to https://github.com/keymanapp/keyman/issues/1680. I have not seen this issue with Chrome before.

Thanks so much Marc for the speedy response.

I ensured that Let me use a different input method for each app window was not ticked. (It wasn’t.)

I followed the github link and ran validate1680.exe. Unfortunately I lost the printscreen of my CMD window, but it did say that it “apparently” worked. I wasn’t able to get Keyman to work in Windows Store Apps, even after the reboot. Then I went into the registry, and the settings were just as the github thread said they should be.

Any other ideas?

(I guess one potential workaround could be to install software via browser downloads, rather than the Windows Store, where available. )

At this point, I’m not sure what is going on. Would you be willing to do a remote screen share where we can dig deeper together? If so, send me a private message here (click on my name, then the Message button) to organise.

Thanks so much for offering to do a support session! Earlier today I changed my keyboard settings in FLEx. All languages were set to English and I believe that the keyboard was staying in English when I switched to a different window (per windows settings). Now that I have all FLEX languages set to use my vernacular keyboard, it seems to be staying put a lot more. (Though I imagine some of the miscellaneous problems remain.) I installed Keyman at the same time I started using Flex, and I think I may have miss-attributed my issues to the wrong program.

I’m going to keep using my computer with my new Flex settings for a while, and see what patterns I can identify. Then I’ll follow up with you, if that’s okay. Thanks so much! I’m sorry about the confusion.

(Also, I’m almost finished with my lexicon conversion and anticipate stopping using Toolbox very soon. Toolbox has its own keyboard irks, and I’d like to see how things go when I’m no longer using that software :smiley:.)

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Sounds great. Yes, Toolbox does do some fun stuff with keyboard switching from way back in the day!

Hello!

After many months of post-Toolbox use, I have an update. I notice that the keyboard switches to English when:
-I am presented with the Windows login screen
-When I start a session on Windows
-Sometimes, when I am presented with a text field in FLEx settings

I learned that I can switch keyboards by using Win + Space, instead of using Alt + Shift. (Including on the login screen.)

I also notice that the number of keyboards I have to choose from varies between 2 and 4. I haven’t been able to discern a pattern.

It would be really nice if my computing sessions started with Keyman, and if the number of keyboards to pick from stayed the same.

Marc, would you still like to do a private support session? If so, I can send you a private message and schedule a time.

Thanks!

Alex

Also, sometimes, when my Keyman keyboard is active, the accents come out backwards (for example, ò instead of ó. As soon as I toggle to a different keyboard and back, the problem goes away. But how can this be kept from happening in the first place? I’m not sure if it’s related the this thread’s main issue or not.

Thanks so much!

I’m pretty swamped just now; I am planning to start into investigating these issues on 17 August – can we try for that week?